Guest: Brian Forrester, Genie Jar Marketing

Episode Introduction

Every story has a heartbeat, and when you learn to tell it well, everything changes.

In this episode of The Hook, I talk with Brian Forrester, co-founder of Genie Jar Marketing, about the power of storytelling in business. From growing up in a North Carolina print shop to pastoring, writing, and ultimately helping entrepreneurs clarify their message, Brian shares how creativity has shaped his path.

We talk about disruption (of course), connection, and the secret to marketing that actually moves people. This one’s for every creative soul who wants to make their work mean something.

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Sarah: Welcome friends to “The Hook with Sarah Larsen.” I’m your host, Sarah Larsen, and today my guest is Brian Forrester with Genie Jar Marketing. Welcome, Brian.

Brian: It’s great to be here. Thank you so much.

Sarah: Why don’t you tell us a little bit about what it is that you do? What is Jeanie Jar Marketing?

Brian: We exist to help small business owners who are going crazy with their marketing, or the lack thereof. Most of the time, because I’m a small business owner myself, I know that these business owners have their hair on fire. They’re running around crazy, trying to make ends meet and connect the dots. They don’t have the time or the wherewithal to figure out Google ads, or website junk, or email campaigns. It’s just another thing to add to the to-do list.

That’s where we come in. We say, “Let’s help you filter through all the clutter. Let’s get you a plan. Let’s get your message down just right so people are amazed at what you do.” Then, let’s figure out the places to put that so that you can reach the perfect person at the right time to grow your revenue and to become a millionaire so you can retire on the beach sipping a nice drink with an umbrella straw. That’s our goal: to help people.

Sarah: I love that goal. Yes, that’s great. You are a fantastic storyteller. I have to say, when I first became aware of Jeanie Jar, I subscribed to your marketing email. I will say I probably click through to the story 75% of the time, and that’s a pretty high number when you’re a busy person. It’s probably dropped a little bit just because I have so many things coming into my inbox now, but I was always grabbed by the teaser story that came, and I was always entertained by the story.

Brian: I’ll take it as a challenge to make you click even closer to 100 percent now. Challenge accepted.

The Correct Pronunciation of His Name

Sarah: Okay, good. Yes, good. Well, let’s go back. Let’s start with where you grew up and what your family life was like back in the good old days.

Brian: This is where I don’t want to bore people. People are like, “Who is this guy, and why do I care?” But I do think there’s a through line to a larger story, as most of us have these through lines, right? Our backgrounds and craziness.

If you can’t already tell, I’m from North Carolina. I really try to hide my accent, but it does not work. I’ve kind of evened it out a little bit, but I get joked about my accent all the time. People think I’m from Texas or related to Joel Osteen, the preacher in Houston. We do sound the same, but here in Virginia, my accent is a little better than it is back in North Carolina. When I get around other “twang-ers,” it’s bad. When I talk to my parents on the phone, I’m like, “Did I use to sound like this?” We fell off the turnip truck, but that’s okay. I embrace it.

Yes, I’m from North Carolina, central North Carolina. We are basketball crazy. I think I grew up with a basketball in my crib. We were always playing ball and into sports. I’m a Southern guy: sweet iced tea and barbecue—that’s a lot of my background.

My journey toward creativity and storytelling and business started with my dad. He’s still kicking, and he owns a printing and advertising business that’s been around for maybe 60 years now. My earliest memories are going to that shop, smelling the ink on the printing presses, looking at all of his signs and advertising things, and just kind of being swept into that world of imagination.

I also come from a musical family. My dad’s a drummer, my mom’s a piano player, and I grew up around music, playing instruments. A lot of those little pieces started to come together in other parts of my journey and played out as I became a teenager, and then in my twenties, thirties, and in business owning. That’s my background: just a Southern boy. I love country music. I need to get some boots and a hat to make the look complete.

Sarah: Are you trying to downplay that a little bit? You’re not going for the full-on package?

Brian: Yeah, I’m trying to downplay a little bit. My wife is a Virginian, and she has tried to soften out some of my Southern edges. She likes a good portion of it, I think. I mean, that’s how she met me.

I might have told you before that she corrected my name. She said that my name was pronounced wrong, and this is not a made-up story. I grew up Brian Forrester [pronounced brīn for-ster]. “Brine,” rhymes with “wine.”

Sarah: That’s how you make your turkey taste really good too. With a Brine.

Brian: Through school, all my friends and family called me Brian. I get to Virginia and I meet Jessica, my future wife. “Hey, I’m Brian Forrester.” Well, she doesn’t say anything on the first date. It takes a couple of times, and then finally she leans across the table and says, “You know what? You’re saying your name wrong.”

Sarah: I love that she’s correcting your name.

Brian: I’m like, “Wait a second. Say that again. I’m saying my name wrong?” She goes, “Yeah, it’s not “Brine”, it’s Bri-an. It’s two syllables, not one. It’s not ‘Forster’, it’s For-rest-er.” I’m like, “Okay, well thank you for correcting me.” Ever since, I’ve been Bri-an For-rest-er. Yes, that’s me.

Sarah: Oh my God, I love that. She is a treat too.

Brian: She doesn’t mind holding back on that kind of stuff, no.

Sarah: That is so great. I am from the North, so I’m very much in the “Bri-an” camp. I had to notice that you did one of these [fist with pinky and thumb sticking out held to ear] to indicate “telephone.” I was just having this conversation with somebody last night about how today’s kids do this [flat hand held to ear]. This is how you indicate that you’re going to call someone. I still do that [the old way] too.

Brian: I can’t hide it, I’m an old guy. We’re from the era when a boyfriend or girlfriend called, you had that one phone, and somebody said, “Brian, phone’s for you!”

Sarah: No, they said “Brine.”

Brian: Excuse me. Well said.

Fighting Restlessness

Sarah: Did you go to college?

Brian: I did. Believe it or not, someone like me went to college. I went to several colleges. I went to UNC Charlotte for my freshman year, then moved back home to UNC Greensboro for a couple years. Then I went to a small private college in Northern Georgia for a couple of years. If you do your math right, that’s squeezing four years of college into five. I did manage to do that. It was nice. Then I went for three more years of post-grad at Regent University, right here in good old Virginia Beach, Virginia.

So, eight years past high school. If you were to pop open my head and look at my brains, they are burnt charcoal. There’s nothing else in there. I’m totally burned out with school. Don’t give me anything else to read. I don’t want any more classes or courses. I don’t want to improve my life. I have nothing left. It’s done.

Sarah: Oh no. We’re going to talk about that. I know that that is complete bull.

Brian: I do love learning. I think all of that really helped to jumpstart a lifetime of self-learning. I enjoyed that more than school. School has its purposes; you learn some good things and have courses. But I think when you can instill in somebody that passion for learning on their own — “Let me find the books. Let me find the podcast. Let me find the courses” — that’s where you can find some amazing things to grow professionally, personally, relationally, spiritually, whatever you want to do. That’s what I’m passionate about. I love to read. I’m a book nerd.

Sarah: You’re a book nerd. I’m with you there. I did do some college, some community college, some university classes. I never finished. I discovered work and making money before I finished the degree. So I am with you, but I really enjoy being able to decide what I want to study and how I want to study it. So I’m a lifelong learner. I’m with you on that.

Is it when you were attending Regent that you met Jessica?

Brian: That was the start of that process. I was a part of a church in Norfolk while I was at Regent, and she just happened to attend that church. We met, and we didn’t start dating immediately. It took a little bit of time, but that’s how we got introduced. By me moving from Georgia in school to Virginia, that started the new chapter of my life. I thought I was going to go to New York or LA. I wanted to just be a jet setter, experience the world. I’m twenty-something. Why stick around? Then you know how it is: relationships change your plans in a good way.

I never in a million years, Sarah, would have thought that 25 or 30 years later, I would still be here in Hampton Roads. She got me. I got caught in her web.

Sarah: The Black Widow. She’s kept you in.

Brian: That’s right.

Sarah: Well, let’s talk about that a little bit because one of my favorite topics is disruption. Your plans for being a jet setter in one of these big cities got disrupted by this beautiful woman. That’s a good thing.

Brian: Right, that’s a good thing.

Sarah: Did it take you some time to adjust to that? Was there an adjustment period of, “Oh, I guess I’m going to stay here,” and then, “What’s that going to look like?”

Brian: I’m still doing that. I’m restless by nature. Part of that can be negative, and part of it can be positive. I’m trying to lean into the positive, of course. After a couple of years of doing anything, I start to get restless. I’m like, “Okay, what’s beyond the next corner? What’s the next state? What’s the next thing? What’s the next season?” So I get bored really easily with the same thing over and over.

That’s why sometimes I just want to, even geographically, move somewhere different. But this is where I need to be right now. Even though I’ve kind of fought it, I still think in the plans there might be some Florida down the road, at least for the winter. I’m not a cold weather guy. If I can be a snowbird—that’s part of my goal in life—after, let’s say, January the second, I’m out until about March something. Then I’m back in Hampton Roads. If I can deal with the winter and be down in Florida, I’m a happy guy. That helps to satisfy some of that restlessness as well. That’s my goal.

Sarah: I completely get that.

Creativity as a Calling

Brian: I’m largely where I’m at today because of disruption, in terms of business stuff.

Sarah: Tell me about that.

Brian: To rewind all the way back to North Carolina, I began to discover, much to my dismay at first, that when I was a kid, others were better at math and science than I was. It was always a struggle. The boredom came through. I looked at numbers, and they just all kind of gelled together in ways. I’m like, “Why is this so hard?”

But when it came to reading, speaking, writing, and art—the fine arts—that’s where I began to love. I just came alive. I was a kid back in fourth grade where the teacher would say, “Brian, we need you to do the classroom bulletin board,” and I loved doing art. I wanted to be a Walt Disney animator. I drew everything everywhere. I was into music. I just loved that element. That was a passion.

I can still remember my earliest memory, when we had to do a project in class. The project was: bring a picture or an object lesson, and then give a speech about it for about five minutes to your class. I started thinking, “Okay, what can I do?” I drew a picture—I remember it was a cartoon rabbit—and I came up with a story about this rabbit. I just made it up, came in, had the picture, and told the story. Didn’t think a thing about it.

Afterward, my teacher came to me and said, “Did you come up with that?” I said, “Well, yeah.” He said, “I want you to do it again. I’m going to bring your parents in, and I’m going to bring your principal in. They need to hear this.” I said, “Okay.” Sure enough, I came back and did this presentation again. I didn’t understand it at the time, but they really encouraged me, saying that it was really interesting how I did that. That was just my lane.

Out of that, I got selected to be the Santa Claus in the Christmas production of the school and had speaking parts and more art. So I began to realize the math and science stuff was so hard for me, even though I made decent grades in it. But this other stuff was like cutting butter with a hot knife. I just continued to follow that creativity side through middle school and high school, where it kind of morphed more into writing. I would do little plays and scripts and things like that, and got into college, and I’d have a writing partner that we’d share short stories together. That has been a through line since nearly the beginning: creativity.

I’m not saying I’m Mr. Creativity; I’m trying to understand it better. I’m trying to figure out how to bring creativity, not just into business, but into all areas of life. Sarah, maybe you have a different definition of creativity, but my favorite definition is when you find two dissimilar things, but you find somehow they can connect, connecting two dissimilar things. That makes a whole entirely new thing. If you can make a connection that other people aren’t maybe making at first, then you’ve got something unique to produce. I didn’t know that back then, how that was all going to play together, but that became a big part of what I wanted to do.

Out of that, because my dad was in marketing, I started doing marketing and trying to find pieces and connecting them together, helping businesses. That has been the basis for the creativity side of things, why I’m doing what I’m doing today.

Sarah: I really am interested with your definition of creativity because what comes to mind for me—and something that I’ve been told is a gift of mine—is this: until recently, I never really thought about things that we do that other people like, that just come really naturally to us, that other people are like, “How do you do that?”

One of those things is that my mind makes these connections when I meet someone new. I love networking. I love meeting new people, and my mind just automatically goes, “Who do I know that could help them? Who do they need to meet? How can I help with whatever it is that you’re doing?” My mind goes there, and so that’s what I thought of when you said two completely different things coming together, finding the connection between them. Tell me more about that.

Brian: I think that creativity is not reserved for a select few that had pixie dust sprinkled on them from high above. I do believe some people are more talented in that area, but I think that creativity can be worked like a muscle for anybody. Some folks might not lean into that side of their brain as much as others, but it can be worked on, strengthened, and developed.

I think when you begin to put on the filter or the glasses of connections in life, whether it be relational connections, whether it be business, products, services, or storytelling that connects to things that you don’t see as a natural connection, that’s when opportunities open up. I believe that’s my key feeling about creativity. Anybody can do this with a little bit of work and understanding where to look for those connection points.

When it comes to our marketing, that’s all we do. If you want to pop the hood, we can talk about Google ads, we can talk about websites and banners and blah, blah, blah, but really at the end of the day, Sarah, it’s about, “What do you do for your business? How can we take that and connect it to the needs of someone who is going to be a perfect customer for you?” What is that through line where we see that connection, and what kind of messages, images, content, and media can we do to make that connection be strong? That’s where that creativity happens.

Creativity is really asking questions. It’s more than just, “What do you do?” It’s, “Okay, that’s interesting, but how do you do it? What do you offer that’s special that you do that someone down the street who’s a competitor doesn’t do?” When someone does choose to work with you, what’s the fairytale ending that happens?

I think creativity is inquisitive in nature. The more ingredients you have on the kitchen table, the more cool recipes that you can make. So we’re always looking for hooks, a little bit of an interesting angle. We know each other, and I’ve learned a lot about you and your life and your background. There are so many cool hooks in there that you can take and expand and do an amazing job of storytelling in all types of areas in your life, including business.

Sarah: That goes back to my admiration of your storytelling. I think that’s the word for it. I love how you are able to craft a story, and obviously that came from a really young age. That’s amazing and great that your teacher recognized it.

Brian: I didn’t recognize it.

Sarah: We don’t often recognize those things in ourselves. A couple of years ago, I would never have said that I’m a creative person, but I discovered some things that I’m pretty creative with, things that I’ve been doing for a long time and just didn’t call them creativity. I love your definition; it expands it even more.

Stories That Stick

Brian: What would happen if everybody woke up in the morning and said, number one, “Today’s going to be a great day,” and number two, “I’m a creative person”? “I can solve these problems creatively. I’m going to go into this Zoom meeting and handle this in a creative fashion. I’m going to pitch this potential customer in a creative way. I’m not just going to settle for how it’s always been done or status quo.”

Here’s another thing about creativity: when you have those glasses on, your ears are always perked up for stories, for headlines that you’re reading in the newspaper or something that you’re seeing as you’re surfing the web. I think part of that is learning how to take information that you discover and put it somewhere that you can retain it and find it later.

I have saved so many stories, and sometimes I forget I even saved them. They might not even come to the surface again for three years later. I’m going through my folders, and I’m like, “Oh yeah, I remember that. That’s a unique story. That person did this or that happened. How can that tie in to what I’m doing next week? Is that going to be an intro in some way?” Then sometimes, boom, it hits. There’s that connection.

If I’m trying to describe the impact of a website, that story is a great illustration. So again, back to creativity, it’s amazing. I think creativity and storytelling go together because people don’t remember a lot of stats, but most people remember stories.

I’ve told you that for years I served as a pastor, and there are a lot of things that are similar in ministry and marketing. I could tell the difference when I’m speaking, giving a message, and I’m telling facts or things like that. I can tell sometimes when people will be kind of starting to drift away. But the moment you start to say, “But once upon a time,” or you go into a story, all of a sudden, it’s the most unique thing about human nature: you see people stop, sit up, and they focus.

There is something about storytelling and creativity in business, in vocation, and in presentations that makes people pay attention. It’s weird. It’s a magic trick, really, the way our brains are wired. Our brains are wired for stories. I think you look back thousands of years ago to our people who came before us: they told stories around campfires before there were books and printing presses.

Sarah: That’s how information was passed along to the next generation: through storytelling.

Brian: Absolutely. When you start to approach things, even those regular bullet point items or action items per day, but you approach it with a narrative involved, that’s something that opens up opportunities.

One of the things I did when I was a pastor—and again, I’m not saying this is the right way or the wrong way, but this was me—when I knew I had to tell a story. Let’s say I’m talking out of the gospels, and Jesus is meeting the fisherman. I can read that passage, which is eight to $10$ verses, but I put myself in the shoes of people in the audience. Personally, if someone says, “Okay, now let’s turn to this chapter and let’s start to read,” my brain sometimes cuts off. I don’t really want to hear somebody read to me.

But what if I knew that story so well that I had it memorized, and I could tell it instead of read it? We’d often say, “Okay, today we’re talking about Jesus meeting these fishermen. He is going to call his first disciples. Let’s lower the lights. Let’s get around the campfire, so to speak. Come off the stage, walk right there where everybody’s at. Let me tell you a story from Matthew Chapter, whatever. One day Jesus went down to the river…” Then you tell the story, and that conversational cadence, it’s the same story.

Sarah: Well, you sucked me right in, of course.

Brian: Now I could tell the difference. Did I do anything really special with that? Not really. But I started looking at something with a narrative focus, with a creative focus, and it made, in my opinion, at least for that context, all the difference. That would be my big action for anything that people are attempting, whether they’re trying to podcast, developing courses, trying to get their business off the ground, doing marketing, or whatever they’re making. What can you do to find a narrative surrounding it, a story? Let me see some art. Let me see something that speaks life into what you’re doing instead of just X, Y, Z. I think that’s my unique thing I bring to the world. Not that I’ve perfected it, and not that I know what I’m doing all the time.

Sarah: It’s that gift that you have that is something that other people look at and go, “Ooh, how do you do that?” and it comes naturally to you. One of the messages that I really want to impart on the world is that we as people, as business owners, regardless, we are valuable for who we are. We each have something. We’re not made for everybody. I’m not made for everybody.

You’re not made for everybody to do business with us, or be friends with us, or whatever. But the way we narrate, the way we tell stories, is the way that we’re going to connect with people to let them know whether we’re for them. We are each unique. So you’re valuable just for being you, and the message that you put out, the narrative that you put out, the stories that you tell are going to reach the people who connect with those stories.

Brian: Beautifully said. Everyone has a story. You just need to uncover it. I believe—and not to put too much commerce on it—that everyone has a million-dollar story. That doesn’t necessarily mean a million dollars in the bank, but it could mean much more than that. It’s how you approach your life purpose, because we need each other. Relationships are built, great relationships are built on questions, and they’re built on shared stories and emotions. That’s what connects people, and I think that’s a very important part.

Ministry of Marketing

Sarah: Absolutely. Let’s go back to this disruption aspect a little bit. So you started working in marketing because that was your dad’s industry that you grew up around and loved. What did you do?

Brian: I didn’t do a whole bunch with my dad. He brought me in for little jobs here and there, but it was more about being exposed to everything. My dad is a good artist and does calligraphy, and I would just watch him over his shoulder do all these beautiful things. Then he worked a lot with politicians, with their signages, and that just put something in me that you can’t really explain. Maybe years later, you can see it come out.

With that ministry side of things, I was surprised that no matter what you do, even for a nonprofit, those communication principles and marketing principles apply across every industry. So, doing the pastoring thing for a number of years, it wasn’t until 2019 that I felt the winds begin to blow, and you know one season is ending and another win is starting. It’s scary, but you know you’ve got to branch out and do it. That was 2019 for me. I knew that ministry season, at least a full-time ministry season, was coming to a close, fading into black, and I was supposed to start a new company.

That’s a scary proposition. You’re starting all kinds of new things, and it’s incredibly exciting. It gets you up in the morning and keeps you up at night in a good way, but it’s also scary. We started—me and a partner of mine who you know, Tom Powell—in 2019, and we’ve been trying to figure it out ever since with all the ups and the downs, and the beauty and the ugliness, and the times that you want to yell victory because we had a great day, and other days you just want to quit and say, “What are we doing? Are we doing this the right way?” That’s just part of the entrepreneur journey.

To summarize, I grew up in a marketing home, did some marketing jobs as I got older, went into ministry for a while using marketing principles, and then here at this stage of my life, getting back into marketing in a full-time way. That’s where we are in 2023.

Sarah: I don’t even think I realized that you guys just got going with the Genie Jar Marketing in 2019.

Brian: Keep in mind, too, that Tom Powell, my business partner, has another agency called The Addison Group, and he’s had it for over 25 years. That’s still going. But he and I partnered. I worked for him for a while with The Addison Group. Then he and I decided to be co-founders of this new agency that does things a little bit differently than traditional agencies, and that’s where our adventure began.

Sarah: It’s interesting because you talk about how starting a new business was a scary proposition. Disruption can be both positive and negative. Something that’s disruptive in your life, in your business, can be something that is positive, but it still disrupts. Starting something new is exciting, but it’s still very disruptive in your life because there’s a lot of risk and unknown involved in that.

Brian: Yes, especially every two weeks when you’re checking the unknown in your income account and wondering, “How do I do payroll again? How do I do these taxes for businesses? Am I an S corp or am I…?” The million questions that you have to work through are all good.

That disruption is also a great way to generate that creativity. When you’re desperate, when you feel disrupted, and your life kind of feels like it’s all scattered out there, I think it does activate a part of the brain. If you want to survive, you’ve got to think through some other ways of doing things other than the ways you’ve always done them. What’s that old saying? “If your dreams don’t scare you, you need to dream new dreams.” Disruption is that nudge saying, “Okay, you had this dream. It’s dangerous, but maybe that’s a sign that you’re on the path that you should be.”

The Structure of Storytelling

Brian: Here’s something else too: when it comes to taking creativity to one particular niche, which is writing, I love to write, and I’ve been able to write a couple of books. If you look at the formula—I hate to put it that way, but just for a good way to describe it—what makes a great book? What makes a great TV show? What makes something streamable or viral? What makes a great movie? There is one thing that always makes something great. What do you think that is when it comes to storytelling?

Sarah: Well, there has to be a disruption. That’s what happens. If you’ve studied storytelling, in the first section of your story, your main character has a disruption.

Brian: That’s it. There has to be a catalyst event. Luke Skywalker was on a no-good planet living with his aunt and uncle until something happened, a catalyst, a disruption that sent him off into space to fight Darth Vader. We can go through every movie ever made, and I would challenge you and whoever’s watching or listening, look at your favorite TV show. Right now, Yellowstone is the most watched TV show in the world, and that’s a great example. If you were to get a notepad and a pen and watch that show and just take it one scene at a time, I guarantee you in every scene you’ll find drama. You’ll find a disruption. Absolutely.

Now, disruption doesn’t mean somebody has to get shot in the head, but it means that there’s an internal conflict, external conflict, a surprise that happens, something they didn’t see coming their way. Any writer worth their salt knows disruption is the currency to great stories. If we start viewing it that way with life, instead of cursing the disruptions—and yes, if we can keep that mindset—our life is a story.

Sarah: That’s a great through line right there.

Brian: One quick thing you had mentioned very correctly, the first part of any story has that catalyst disruption event. That’s the same formula that businesses should use in their messaging. You’ve heard me talk about this a lot through our networking events and times we’ve spent together, but we always feel, “Let’s take creativity. Let’s take storytelling. Let’s talk disruption. Let’s put it all in one little takeaway for somebody.”

That is: when it comes to messaging your business, what is your one-liner? We always come back to this. Can you describe in one line what you do? That one-liner has got to be compelling. Don’t settle for status quo and sound like the person down the street saying the same thing.

We feel that with creativity, storytelling, and disruption, there are three parts to a one-liner. That first part is the problem that somebody’s facing. What are they going nuts about that they cannot figure out?

Number two of that one-liner is your unique solution and how you come in and say, “You won’t believe how I can solve that problem,” and you do it with your secret sauce of one, two, three.

Then the third part of that one-liner is that wonderful fairytale ending where you see Cinderella’s Castle, the fireworks exploding in the background, and someone’s riding off into the sunset on that white horse. All happy. The end. That’s the key to storytelling for business.

Let’s say I’m working with you, and you’re trying to promote your podcast and your new empire, the new Oprah 2023, as you continue to build. I would say, “Okay, what problem are you trying to solve for people, Sarah? Let’s get that in your one-liner. What do you do different than these other podcasters or these other course builders? Okay, let’s put that in there. And then what’s going to happen when they actually listen to your stuff and engage with your material? What’s going to be the final product?” You put all that together in a bowl, mix it together, and that’s when you’ve got something powerful.

The catalyst, the disruption, the solution, the story, the happy ending. If people start thinking that way, that’s the nucleus of the rest of your message and other pieces of your collateral. Don’t work on your website until you first of all have your one-liner down. Don’t think about your headline until you first know what your one-liner is.

What’s really sad too is when businesses have multiple employees. If you go into that office and say, “Let me get each employee by themselves and say, what’s the one-liner of this business?” they’ll give you one thing. You walk to the next office, they’ll give you a completely new answer. You go to the next office, they have another answer. If you can’t get your message right internally, how do you expect to be effective externally reaching potential customers? Everybody has a different version. Getting your story together, and almost a three-act structure, is really powerful.

Sarah: Yes. You have shared that with me before. It is very powerful to put it together that way, and I like thinking of it as the three-act structure.

Brian: Let me put you on the surgeon’s table. What problem are your listeners facing? Why are they listening to you? Can you tell me that?

Sarah: Well, this is great because I don’t really know why they’re listening to me, to be honest. I feel like I know more the special sauce and what they get from it, the outcome or the transformation. But I don’t really know what that starter is.

Brian: It’s very important. You need to know that, the problem. It’s good that you struggle, because if you don’t empathize first with their problem, they might not clue in to number two, which is your secret sauce. You have to show them the medicine that you have for their disease, if you will. That doesn’t mean fear-mongering. That doesn’t mean focusing on the negatives, but it does mean, “I see you. I hear you. I know you’re facing this.”

I would encourage you, as I have to do it in my own business and anybody else we work with, to think that one through. Know that target market so well that when you sit down and write an email to that target market, it’s like writing to your best friend and giving them advice. Say, “I know that you’re going through a business transition right now, and it’s tough, and you feel like throwing in the white towel,” or “I know that you feel like you’re underqualified, and you just don’t know where to look for a resource to help you.” Whatever that might be.

If you can start off with that, it’s almost so powerful that they stop in their tracks and go, “How did you know that about me? You are reading my mail.” If you know that, “I want to look into your crystal ball, and can you please tell me some more?” Great. There is so much power in leading with questions, especially when you come with knowledge beforehand about what they might be struggling with.

Sarah: Let’s dig into this a little bit deeper. I want to think about that. Maybe my problem is that I haven’t really thought about it as a problem, but really I feel like if you are interested in starting a business or you are facing disruptions in your life and in your business, you want to know that there are other people out there that have the same, and maybe have the answers, have been through it, maybe have an answer that can help you.

That is the transformation or the outcome that I anticipate for listeners: that they’re picking up some tips from the conversations that we have. What are the challenges that you have faced, that you have overcome that can help someone, inspire them, make them think, “Oh, maybe I could do that.” “Oh, I’ve been struggling with creating my message.” “Oh, well, Brian has the answer for me.”

Brian: I have a feeling you could have called me that from here on out forever.

Sarah: Perhaps. You know, there’s a point at which the joke has been played out.

Brian: People still call me that. It would never end. I still have my people in North Carolina.

Sarah: But that’s sort of the thing. The secret sauce is having this conversation with you to pull out that information and talk about it so that somebody else can get something from it.

Connection Over Perfection

Brian: You hit on a few things there. Maybe one of those is, “Do you feel alone in your business journey?” I’m not saying that’s the perfect one.

Sarah: Being a business owner can be very lonely. It’s very isolating. How many people do you know that are going through the same thing as you?

Brian: Are you struggling with your startup? Do you need resources and you don’t know where to look? There are so many angles that you can take from that, based upon who is watching and listening, and maybe even you. Sometimes we attract the people who are like us. Sometimes all we need to do is to look at our own life story and say, “I had all these worries and all these struggles, and maybe I still struggle with them. If I’m still struggling with them, I know I’m not the only person in the world who is.” So why don’t I just take my insecurities and my struggles and turn that into, “Do you need help with,” and I’m just explaining what I’m struggling with.

When you raise that flag and say, “Any other strugglers out there? Anybody want to raise their hand and join me?” you’d be amazed at how people are drawn to vulnerability. People are drawn to weakness. People just want to know that they’re not crazy and they’re not by themselves. Then you have to, as a leader, you have to realize, “Man, do I feel like I have imposter syndrome? Can I really help like I want to help?”

I’ve always felt that if you just know 10 percent more than somebody else at this point in the journey, you can reach back and help. You don’t have to have it all figured out, but you might have a resource or books or videos or a connection that this person desperately needs that you can make the connection. If we can learn in our one-liner to raise the flag and say, “Do you struggle with?” and then to say, “I can help you,” not because I’m Mr. or Mrs. Expert in everything, but “I’ve been through this, and I’ve learned what can work. I can help you or point you in the right direction.” You see how the narrative is starting to come alive?

It’s more than just, “Here are the benefits of working with me, blah, blah, blah.” That draws nobody. Nobody cares. But when you start asking questions like, “Do you struggle? Are you frustrated?” if you can make somebody see your headline or listen to your story and go, “Yeah, you know, you’re onto something,” you know you’re onto something.

Every good story should elicit an emotional response. Some will make you cry, some will make you laugh, some will make you want to hit your head against the wall and say, “Why didn’t I know this earlier?” All types of emotions. Great business leaders and pioneers know the power of stories.

Steve Jobs, when he was introducing the iPod, iPad, and iPhone, that guy—say what you want about him—would get up on that stage in his black turtleneck and he would enrapture an audience, telling stories. Do you remember how Apple described those first iPods that had the little dial? Instead of them going, “Well, this has the so-and-so chip, and this has the this speed that can do this,” instead of doing nerd speak, I thought it was genius that Steve Jobs said, “You know, this little thing, you can now hold 10,000 songs in your pocket.”

Sarah: Oh, that’s a cool description.

Brian: In a few words, you told a story that even a grandma or a grandpa who knows nothing about technology can be like, “Oh, I get that. I don’t understand how it works, but I can have 10,000 songs in my pocket on that device. Got it. I want one.” That’s that narrative creativity, matching it together with the engineering and the product stuff. You need both. They need to be a marriage somewhere.

Sarah: Wow. Thank you so much. I feel like we all just got a great lesson in marketing.

Brian: I don’t know a lot, but I’m trying to learn every single day. If there’s anything I’ve learned, it’s because of my screw-ups. I should write a book, “What Not to Do in Marketing.” That could be a bestseller, because I’ve done it all and seen lots of failure. Maybe I’ve learned from those failures to say, “But this works better.”

Sarah: That’s something that I have said quite a bit: I learned more from my failures than from my successes. I sometimes refer to myself as a serial entrepreneur. I have run and owned many businesses in my life. I think that I have a little bit of experience to share, and those businesses are not here anymore. So I have learned something, and now I’m creating something new from what I’ve learned.

Brian: Which is beautiful, and full circle. I know we’re trying to close, but I wanted to make sure I said this. I mentioned writing books. It’s one of my passions; it keeps me sane. Whether they ever see the light of the day or not doesn’t matter. I just get up every morning and I write and kind of work that creative muscle.

I recently had a book come out, and I don’t know how, but Barnes & Noble allowed me to come do a book signing. I don’t know if you saw in the news recently—I don’t even know this lady—but she was a first-time author, had a book signing at some bookstore. She was so excited about it, and 37 people said they would be coming, like her friends. She shows up that day, and no one comes—zero, ghost town, zero people. She was so disappointed. She was looking forward to that day, the outfit and everything. She got home, and under her frustration and sadness, she went on Twitter and said, “I know people are busy. I’m not mad about that, but I’m just so disappointed that I had nobody come today.”

Would you know, this is a true story, that that tweet got out big time to other authors, one being Stephen King, one of the world’s greatest authors, and some musicians, famous people. They started retweeting that, and Stephen King basically said, “Hey, the next time you do a book signing, we’re going to let the world know that you’re having one.” Which he did, and she had another book signing, and I think it was a total sellout. She’s now sold thousands and thousands of books based upon people seeing her frustration.

Anyway, I had a book signing at Barnes & Noble. I’m thankful that some people came out, but one of the first people to come through that door that morning was you, Sarah. I wanted to say that that was such an encouragement to me. I had never done a book signing before, and I’m standing out there. You feel naked in front of the little table, “Hey, would you like to look at a book?” You feel kind of corny.

You came in to support me, and that meant a lot to me, and I just wanted to say thank you. You didn’t have to do that on a Saturday morning out of your busy schedule to come out and do that, but that’s the kind of person you are. Everybody listening out there, real deal, behind-the-scenes friend, supporter, and encourager. It meant a lot to me. You supported some guy trying to tell a story.

Sarah: I did. That’s so funny because that’s the thing that I was trying to remember earlier that I wanted to come back to: your book. Go check it out. It’s called The Jungle Within.

Brian: The Jungle Within, yes.

Sarah: Great young adult target audience, but those stories are great for adults too.

Tell us where we can find you on the internet.

Brian: All right, real easy geniejarmarketing,com. You’ll find a lot of resources there. We’ve got an updated blog that has all kinds of information about one-liners, how to do this, or shortcuts to come up with great messages, headlines, or email campaigns.

If someone’s out there who just needs a little help getting their drawer organized, we would love to come in and help you discover your story so that you can be effective in reaching the right people, because you’ve got something great to share with the world. Let’s get more people knowing about it. That’s why we exist.

Sarah: I love that. Thank you so much for coming today. This has been so fantastic. I can’t even tell you how much I’m enjoying doing this podcast because this is the part that I absolutely love. It’s just knowing, “Oh my gosh. I just had an amazing conversation with this friend who now everybody else gets to meet.”

Brian: You’re so sweet. Thank you.

Sarah: Thank you. I appreciate you so much.

Key Takeaways

• Creativity is connection. It’s not about being artistic. It’s about seeing patterns and relationships others miss.
  
• Disruption drives discovery. Every pivot, challenge, or “plan gone wrong” creates space for reinvention.
  
• Stories build trust. Facts tell, but stories sell. They’re how we remember, relate, and decide.
  
• Clarity is your secret weapon. Before you market anything, know your story and the transformation you offer.

About Brian

Brian Forrester is the co-founder of Genie Jar Marketing, a Virginia Beach-based agency that helps small businesses cut through the clutter and tell their story with heart.

A lifelong creative and former pastor, Brian blends faith, humor, and strategy to help entrepreneurs communicate with clarity and connection. He’s also the author of The Jungle Within, a young adult adventure novel exploring courage and self-discovery.

Connect with Brian: Geniejarmarketing.com | BAForrester.com

Energetic Reflection

Brian’s story radiates the energy of curiosity. That magnetic spark that keeps us learning, adapting, and finding meaning in the messy middle.

His journey reminds us that creativity isn’t about color palettes or campaigns; it’s about connection. When we tell stories that come from truth, we open a door for others to see themselves.

So whether you’re crafting a business message, a book, or a brand, remember: your story doesn’t need to be perfect. It just needs to be real.

If this episode inspired you, I invite you to join my Reiki-infused newsletter, where I share reflections on creativity, leadership, and the energetics of storytelling.